Auto Ordnance Serial Numbers

Manufacturer - Auto-Ordnance Model/configuration – Model 1911A1 Standard Serial number - E10072 Year of manufacture - Auto-Ordnance has never released a list of serial numbers and corresponding dates of manufacture, but based upon known examples, I would put the date of manufacture in the 1996/97 era. Auto-Ordnance was later sold to Kahr Arms. What is the date for auto ordnance 1927 A1 serial number KN6468? Contact Numrich Gun Parts at 845-679-3500. Numrich is the successor to Auto Ordnance for the Thompsons. Savage and Auto Ordnance. If there is no S in the serial number its probably an auto ordnance. Look at all the internal parts and see if they have little aoc stamps. Savage guns will have an S stamp on most of the parts. The serial number dates it to March of 2012 which bears out that it was only ever very lightly used, if at all. Came through the door with an Auto Ordnance GI. Auto-Ordnance serial numbers and date made I called AO because I was curious as to when my gun was made. My serial number is AOA282xx and it was made July 2013. Maybe some of you with different serial numbers can call and see when yours was made.

• Auto Ordnance Serial Number Dates
• Auto Ordnance Serial Numbers
• Thompson Auto Ordnance Serial Numbers
• Auto Ordnance 1928a1 Serial Numbers
• Auto Ordnance West Hurley Serial Numbers

Analysis of Serial Numbers

The Colt Patent Firearms Company of Hartford Connecticut was contracted by Auto-Ordnance to manufacture the first 15000 Thompson sub-machine guns from April 1921 to May 1922. Contract was signed on 18^th August 1920. All were marked “Model of 1921” and bore a serial number which was placed in four locations on the gun on the first 1000 and then in three locations with the rest.

The first commercial production gun was numbered 41 and was shipped on 31^st March 1921– numbers 1 to 40 were all considered prototypes and remain to this day in Museums in the US. Early guns were designated Model of 1919 and some were belt fed ammunition and only full automatic.

The sixth gun manufactured was serial number 46 and was the first gun consigned to Auto-Ordnance in the name of their salesman George Gordon Rorke on 2^nd April. This gun was sold to the Irish Republican Army (IRA).

During first month of production, 28 Thompson guns were shipped to the IRA via George Gordon Rorke, salesman for Auto-Ordnance.

During February 1921 a group of men , all with obvious Irish surnames, ordered 50 Thompson guns from a salesman of Auto – Ordnance under the name of P.J. Gentry of New York who was a saloon-keeper on Manhattan’s Lower West Side and frontman for the IRA.

On May 25^th these were delivered and within days, the guns, the men and Mr. Gentry had disappeared.

In March 1921 the first Thompson guns were produced by Colt and were sent to Auto-Ordnance for hand finishing and inspection. The first two guns were shipped in the name of a Mr. Wise, a front man for the IRA.

These guns were tested by their Irish “purchasers” Sean Nunan (later to become Ireland’s Ambassador to the US!) and Laurence de Lacy (also known as Frank Williams) at the 69^th Regimental Armoury. The two guns soon left for Ireland hidden in the luggage of Irish American military officers Cronin and Dineen (later to take commissions in the Irish Army) who were sent to Ireland to train the IRA in the guns’ use.

Auto-Ordnance salesman Rorke placed and order for his Irish clients on April 5^th comprising 500 guns, 125 (x100) drums, 250 (x50) drums and 1000 (x20) box magazines.

Clann na Gael, Irish fund raising organisation in the US, maintained an arms dump at La Fontaine Avenue in the Bronx , New York. Other weapons of all ages were stored here along with ammunition destined fro the struggle in Ireland. 25 Thompson guns arrived there during April 1921 , another 30 on May 6^th, another 45 on May 11^th with further deliveries of 240 guns in total on 18^th, 19^th, 20^th and 21^st May. By end of May 400 Thompsons were amassed at the Bronx warehouse.

A number of addresses of convenience were recorded in the meticulously kept Auto-Ordnance company records. This enabled guns to be sold to the Irish but give the impression of different business customers. While it is not certain all were IRA conduits, some were. Of interest were:

American Railway Express Companyof 46^th Street, New York

were used as a front for the purchase of guns sold by G.G.Rorke for in April, May and June some 306 were ‘shipped’ there. A definite IRA purchase.

Milton Kohn Export Corporation on Panama Railroad & Steamship Company of New York

were shipped 29 guns.

Auto Ordnance Serial Number Dates

Moore-Handley of Birmingham Alabama

were shipped 16 guns.

Logan Hardware & Supply of Logan, West Virginia

were shipped 5 guns.

W.S.Brown, 523 Wood Street, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

was shipped 7 guns.

P.J. Gentryof New York

was shipped 50 guns. A definite IRA purchase.

Thomas F Ryan, 3 East 67^th Street, New York

was shipped 2 guns. The senior Director of Auto-Ordnance.

Morgan, Salesman for Auto-Ordnance

Was consigned during April guns #69, #75 and #66 – the latter now with Bapty & Co. London, movie prop business.

Captain Geo T.Wise, Washingtom DC

was shipped 7 guns. Serial numbers 42 and 43 were shipped on 24^th March in his name and with connection “USMC Navy Order”. From the Auto-Ordnance very first shipping chart week ending 9^th April 1921, the third line records the sale of two guns #42 and #43 dated 24^th March 1921 destination Capt G.T. Wise C/o Frank Ochsenreiter of Washington. The order had been pre-paid. With the order came 10 (XX) magazine, 4 (L) drums, 2 (C ) drums, 2 webbing gun cases, 6 webbing magazine cases, 1 handbook.

Ochsenreiter was a salesman colleague of George Rorke and fellow member of the Friends for Irish Freedom. He worked for another of Fortune Ryan’s companies at the time.

Interstingly gun #811 sold to Geo.Wise was captured by the Royal Ulster Constabulary in Northern Ireland in an IRA arms dump.

Captain H.B.C. Pollard, London England

was shipped 14 guns – four on 26^th April plus 10 on 5^th May. The Captain, Hugh Bertie Campbell Pollard, was born 6^th January 1888, served as an Officer in WW1 in Intelligence, and in 1920 was appointed as an Intelligence officer on the Staff of the Chief of Police Ireland. He was an authority in modern and ancient firearms and had written several notable books (The Story of Ypres in 1917, The Book of the Pistol and Revolver in 1917, Automatic Pistols in 1921 and Secret Societies of Ireland in 1922).

He was a journalist for the Daily Express from 1912.During WW1 he was on the Staff Intelligence Directorate at the War Office and then was listed at the Irish Office 1920-1922 based at Dublin Castle. His title was Press Officer with Police Authority Information Section. He was instrumental in putting the British side during the propaganda was with the IRA and would have been under the threat of assassination by the IRA during his Irish stay. During 1936 he was personally involved in the Spanish Civil War by flying Franco to Spain. During WW2 Pollard served as a British M16 officer.

In his work “Secret Societies of Ireland” published in July 1922 fresh from his stint as Press Officer in Dublin Castle, he made reference on several pages to the Thompson gun in Ireland. He described it as “no longer than a carbine, and weighing only 8lbs, is to all effects a short range machine gun, capable of firing one thousand rounds a minute. It is extremely portable and very easily concealed”. He refered to the capture by the British of IRA documents in May 1921 outlining the deployment of the gun around Ireland and identifying of targets.He recorded that the British had been interested in the gun too and had confronted John Thompson and manager Morgan when they were in Britain demonstrating the gun.The two denied all knowledge of the Irish shipment and as a result the interest was dropped.He said that it was the British who blew the whistle on the East Side shipment.He was aware that serial numbers could be traced. Of the 600 purchased, only 495 were seized on the ship, the balance he wrote, had made their way to Ireland before and after the July 1921 Truce.

Several times Pollard wrote that the first use of the Thompson Gun in Ireland was during the IRA burning of the Customs House in Dublin on 25^th May 1921 which resulted in large scale capture of IRA men and materials. He said the gun ‘jammed badly and inflicted no casualties on the police engaged’. The IRA records do not support this assertion.

This was an ingenious cover for IRA purchases.

In police arms seizures back in Ireland, two guns shipped to H.D. Folsom Arms Company of New York turned up, one shipped to Watson Hardware & Company of Ashland Kentucky, one shipped to State Police Hartford Connecticut.

29 from the first 100 produced were sold to the IRA.

The following figures cannot be exact as dates shipped overlapped different months;

April 1921 –96 manufactured numbered 41 to 136 (28 shipped to IRA agents)

May 1921 – 707 manufactured numbered 137 to 843 (413 shipped to IRA agents)

June 1921 – 1480 manufactured numbered 844 to 2323 (96 shipped to IRA agents)

Thompson gun serial no.1117 was the last recorded gun shipped with IRA connections on 6^th June 1921.

Two serial numbers 701 and 901 were recorded as being on the East Side seizure.

Some 55% of the first two months production went to the IRA.

Hemmingway’s novel “To Have and Have Not” carries in its Penguin edition a jacket picture of Thompson serial no. 66. This gun was shipped on 11^th April 1921 and “taken abroad with Morgan” (Auto-Ordnance salesman) and is now with film prop company Bapty’s & Co. of London.

Interarmco in the US bought up a batch of Irish Thompsons in 1957.

Hundreds of Model of 1921 guns have been seized by both the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) in N.Ireland, the Garda in Eire and the British police in Great Britain – all originating from the East Side cache. Some have had legible serial numbers while others have had their numbers defaced. Guns still remain in concealed arms caches to this day.

From 1922 to today, the RUC reported 61 guns seized in arms finds of which 21 serial numbers were recorded and of these 15 were from East Side.

One gun is RUC hands was #811, shipped to George T Wise, Auto-Ordnance salesman on 10^th June 1921.

During period 1935 to 1981, the Garda seized 227 Thompson guns of which 40 carried legible serials. Of these 29 were East Side traceable.

Interesting serials captured from the IRA in Ireland included #372 shipped to Connecticut State Police, #722 shipped to Folsom Arms Company of New York, #894 shipped to Watson Hardware Company of Ashland Kentucky.

Defacing serial numbers was common as 395 out of the 495 guns found on the East Side were obliterated.

There is even an IRA Thompson in a Museum in Norway.

The Irish Free State Army from 1922 used Thompsons until the 1950’s.These were sold off to foreign collectors at that time….records not kept.The guns were sold to Interarmco (Interarms) in the US.

Interestingly during 1923 after the devisive Civil War the Free State army held 20 Thompsons while the IRA held estimated 60 guns.

Mikes Machine guns fine website records Irish Thompsons serial no.’s 389, 586, 708 and 993 are in a collection in New Zealand.

An analysis of the serial numbers for which records were kept and retrieved for the first 1000 guns thanks to the East Side case where they were used in court.

Auto Ordnance Serial Numbers

Serial 811 shipped 10^th June 1921 was consigned to a George T Wise of Washington DC – this weapon was captured by the Royal Ulster Constabulary years later.

I have been able to track down serial numbers and locations as per chart below. As expected, Museums in Ireland north and south have plenty of examples. Interesting to note that Imperial War Museum London (thanks to Paul Cornish) has two and that serial no. 383 has a defaced number on frame. Also the two guns in National Firearms Centre (formerly Pattern Room) have their serial numbers defaced. This defacing was refered to in court during the East Side trial. During the 1950’s captured weapons were sold off to the collectors market. Hundreds of Thompson guns have been captured by the Irish police, British Army, and Royal Ulster Constabulary in arms seizures from 1921 to 1981.

Thompson Auto Ordnance Serial Numbers

Many of these were destroyed under the law.

KAHR ARMS AND AUTO-ORDNANCE DOES NOT ALLOW INDIVIDUALS OR DEALERS TO BRING FIREARMS TO OUR FACTORY FOR REPAIR. GUNS FOR REPAIR MUST BE SENT TO THE FACTORY ACCORDING TO THE INFORMATION OUTLINED BELOW.

Auto Ordnance 1928a1 Serial Numbers

Thompson rifles returned to the factory for service or repair should be sent to:

Kahr Firearms Group
Attn:Return Dept.
105 Kahr Ave.
Greeley, PA 18425

Contact Kahr Arms Technical Support Department to receive a Return Authorization number before shipping a firearm to the factory. You can do this by online (RA request form) or by calling 508-795-3919-ext.1. PISTOLS SHIPPED TO THE FACTORY MUST BE SENT PREPAID. THE KAHR SERVICE DEPARTMENT CAN NOT ACCEPT COLLECT SHIPMENTS.

The Federal Firearm Control Act does not prohibit an individual from shipping a firearm directly to the manufacturer for service or repair.
However, some states or localities prohibit this. If you live in such a location, have a Federally Licensed Firearms dealer ship the firearm. It will be returned to the dealer after being serviced.

Enclose a letter that includes reference to the factory 'Return Authorization' Number, your name, address, telephone number, and serial number and model of the firearm. Describe in detail the trouble you have experienced with your firearm, or the work you wish to have done. Stating only that the firearm 'needs repair' is inadequate information. Please enclose copies of any previous correspondence. Please do not include slings, or special accessories with any firearm being shipped to the factory for service.

Service work performed, other than approved Warranty repairs, will carry a minimum hourly charge of $65.00 plus a $25.00 return shipping and handling charge. Retain your tracking number when shipping firearms for repair. This will allow you to track the status of your firearm shipment either by phone or the website of the carrier.

Kahr Arms and Auto-Ordnance ships repaired firearms via Fedex 'Adult Signature Required'. Please make sure the 'Adult Signature Required' from Fedex is not waived for your address. If 'Adult Signature Required' is waived at your address then you are responsible for any loss as a result.

Service for West Hurley Firearms

Thompson long guns produced prior to 1999 by Numrich Gun Parts, West Hurley, New York are no longer being serviced by Kahr Arms, Worcester, MA. Please contact the following company should your pre-1999 firearm require service or repair.

Auto Ordnance West Hurley Serial Numbers

iDamon.net (TommyGunner.com)
Address: 75 Haver Rd., Olivebridge, NY 12461
Phone: 845-514-9332